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Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2011.11.10 06:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mining is still the red headed stepchild of the ugly 2 headed stripper you were really drunk and slept with once ?
So I go out in a t1 bc even and can rat for hours with drops and salvage bringing in twice (at least) as much in cash. I can defend myself at least reasonbly well.
Mining I can't defend myself and bring in half as much ?
That about sum it up ?
I'd really love to see that 2007 or whatever it was update to industry we were supposed to get but got sidetracked. |
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 06:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
yeah I'm not new...
I was talking more about the fact that if you have 2 groups, one that can defend themselves, another who can't... They both go out into the same system and make money, don't you think just from a gameplay point of view that the guy who can't defend himself and is totally geared towards making money should make more than the guy in the combat ship ?
Just as a general principle?
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Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 07:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
How about making ships require more minerals?
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Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 07:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Making ships require more minerals might well devalue isk some - but would bring the difference between combat and miner's incomes closer.
Scanning down belts might just require better programming for the bots. But I'm fairly certain they'd have a lot of trouble programming a bot to scan a belt down and again moving TO the belt requires moving to a bookmark currently - not sure they do that either. Personally, I'm not even sure they move between systems as part of the botting program.
And again 2nd idea might make the first idea worthless anyhow, as you said if they got rid of all the bots magically, we might be able to make some isk.
No you're not stupid, you're totally correct. |
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 08:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Revolution Rising wrote:yeah I'm not new...
I was talking more about the fact that if you have 2 groups, one that can defend themselves, another who can't... Of course miners can defend themselves. Why would you think they can't?
Don't really need goon trolls here.
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Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 11:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Not everyone is part of a large organisation.
Look around the forums, it's a known problem experienced by hundreds (or more) of people who have posted about it in quite a few places and saying it's not is basically trolling at this point.
Take a look in threads regarding the current plex price and you go down a few posts and mining and the lack of income to anyone but botters comes up.
If miners can defend themselves so well I guess you'll be out on your hulk roam later today right ?
the basic point here - if it has to be explained to the 12 year olds in the group - is that the difference between a miner and a combat ship is pretty large... given all the rest is the same. We have intel, they have intel, however that difference is WHY YOU DONT ROAM IN A HULK.
That difference should be paid for, not made the bastard redheaded stepchild of eve.
I really can't see how anyone with a 3rd year education can't see that.
Perhaps a nice graph ?
But you're right, I accused the dude above of being a troll - because I ... silly me ... assumed he was intelligent enough to really get this and therefore must be a troll...
Perhaps you're just stupid... my apologies. |
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 15:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Well, Mr. Rising, You're right, I don't roam in a hulk. I'm partial to battle-badgers  . In all seriousness though, I have done a bit of pew pew in industrial-oriented ships. You're right in saying that they're not ideal for it ... but when has a merchant vessel *EVER* been an ideal platform against ganks? (see: WWII and the German U-boat wolfpacks for RL example). You're also right that not *everyone* is part of a large organisation -- but how many SMALL organisations (especially mining/industry) live in a given system/constellation, hm? 10 small (10-man) organisations have just as many people as that single 100-man organisation ... it just takes a little more :effort: to get them working together...
Look the point of that part of the conversation is that mining ships are less combat able than combat ships - derrr. So therefore there should be some compensation for the risk involved as opposed to what ratters have to manage.
Any discussion saying they are the same are made by either trolls or complete inbred idiots.
There's zero use in continuing this line of thought.
Large organisations by definition are better defended than small ones (safety in numbers - for the peanut gallery once again). However, many people prefer a smaller organisation in which to play for various reasons ranging from not just being a number, to being able to pvp with small gangs rather than large.
Keeping things the same might be well and good for many people who have independant incomes in game - it might even be better for ccp - I notice the prices of plexes only rises.
However, it doesn't make for a good mining experience.
Many of us take a more holistic view of our time online. We extrapolate upon our actions with regard to the butterfly effect. It makes us feel better to be mining rather than ratting/missioning. Knowing the minerals we collect are used for this or that, or even creating those new products ourselves and selling those in specific areas of the game to help our respective corps/alliances.
It would be nice to have the risk rewarded, rather than having the extra risk we take on by flying mining vessels poopoo'd by CCP and the peanut gallery/trolls.
This was the point of the conversation.
I totally agree that increasing yield is not the answer.
Increasing minerals required for ships is not the answer.
Having belts only be able to be scanned down rather than static belts might help for a while, but I dare say the botting programs would adapt ?
Possibly a mix of these approaches might help ?
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Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2011.11.11 02:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Not groups of people. Two groups of activities. One activity yields decent ISK/hour, can be performed in a decent ship, and interfaces well skill-wise with other areas (say, combat). Second activity gives poor returns, is done in a ship which dies if someone looks at you the wrong way, and requires months of training which do not benefit anything outside said activity.
Yet every day hundreds and hundreds of people consciously choose the second one.
WHY!?
That's your reason why mining is so pitiful in terms of ISK. Because people are for some strange reason still willing to do it for the little ISK to be made. EVE is a player-driven economy. This means that as long as there are people willing to mine at 15 MISK/hour, mining will make you 15 MISK per hour. If they instead of whining on the forums started doing something else, the supply of "cheap" minerals would soon be exhausted, and the value of minerals - and the profit from mining - would increase.
I agree right up until you said WHY lol...
Fact is it's still an RPG and plenty of people like to use the various models for income that are available.
Why shouldn't they mine?
Not everyone necessarily wants to min/max, but at the same time, not everyone wants to get F'd in the A for doing something the game says is a reasonable alternative for income.
I don't mine personally, however, I'd like to at least see the day on the horizon when I CAN again.
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Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2011.11.12 13:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Removal of drone region mineral drops is only half the equation.
Even if you do that and mineral prices doube - thereby doubling my income - it also doubles the income of botters. Again, along with the isk devaluation due to plexes will eventually lead to a market meltdown. Isk values continue to drop. Plex prices therefore increase and markets become smaller for everyone not botting.
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